Decent Espresso Maschinenbesprechung

Mir geht es ähnlich. Über die Optik lässt sich sicherlich trefflich streiten. Aus technischer Sicht aber ein sehr spannendes und zeitgemäßes Konzept.

 

Spannend!!! Wenn sich das bewährt könnte es mein Upgrade sein.

 

I is possible for me to make several appearances in Southern Germany, such as München, in mid-december, if any cafes or coffee associations are interested in hosting me. My last scheduled appearance is in Aix-en-Provence, not that far away. So... contact me at [email protected] if you are interested in having me come through.

 

Gerade mal auf der Webseite geschaut, respekt was die da auf die Beine gestellt haben.
pure coffee madness. Aber am besten hat mir das gefallen...

 

Da will man die Maschine ja schon alleine wegen dem Koffer.

 

Das ganze hat irgendwie was von einem angebissenen Apfel.

Ich bin echt gespannt auf die ersten Erfahrungsberichte


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[USER = 31095] @surftoni [/ USER]

4 reviews:

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/morning-with-decent-espresso-machines-t43973.html
http://www.home-barista.com/espress...cent-espresso-machines-t43973-60.html#p501424
http://www.home-barista.com/espress...cent-espresso-machines-t43973-20.html#p500186
http://www.home-barista.com/marketp...machine-now-available-t43925-120.html#p501354

 

Gab bzw. gibt es eigentlich tatsächlich, wie vom Konstrukteur vorgeschlagen, eine Demo in Süddeutschland?

Gruß
Christian

 

Hi ParityB - this tour that I just concluded was just the West Coast of America, and the UK, because our espresso machines are still in beta testing, and I wanted to get feedback on what we were doing. I'm now back in Hong Kong, and in the next few months release versions of our espresso machines will start shipping.

My plan is to come to Europe this summer, and I will definitely come to both München and Berlin, at the very least, and possibly more cities in Germany too.

Ich liebe Deutschland und kann ein bischen Deutsch sprechen.

 

It would be nice (for you and us) if you come in September to the Berlin Coffee Festival.

 

An excellent suggestion, I will try to make it happen.

Hopefully I can get the same apartment rental next to Bonanza Coffee Heroes in Berlin, where I had my first amazing espresso so many years ago!

 

Hi,
thank you for your response!
Since I live near Berlin (and work in the city) I can only appreciate your plans for visiting Berlin
By the way, one thing, why I'm really excited about your project, is your direct and extensive customer communication, explaining every little detail with real passion and also patience (I also have read the threads on the home barista forum).

Best wishes
Christian

 

You are very welcome, but I would like to add that some of our best ideas have come from the open discussions, and I have met people I never would have been introduced to, if it weren't for working out in the open.

I come from the open source and civil liberties world, and have been a board member of EFF (http://www.eff.org), Creative Commons (https://creativecommons.org/) and Open Rights Group (https://www.openrightsgroup.org/) and I really believe that openness is the best approach. I've also felt that modern Germany has these same values.

Perhaps I'm getting too philosophical... :-D

 

No, not too philosophical! This mindset makes the whole thing even more appealing - at least for me

 

@decent_espresso: Very nice project! I hope you guys will make it to the Berlin Coffee Festival this year. It's definitely worth the trip, you reach a lot of your target audience there.

One question: Is there any way to learn about the technical specifications of the device, i.e., what's inside (pump type, tank capacity, boiler capacitie(s), is the steam created with a thermoblock or otherwise, etc. etc.). Thanks!

 

The best way to have your questions answered is to ask here. That way everyone can ask what is on their mind and we can have a discussion. And also this way everything I write is fact-checked by the entire group, and so more trustworthy.

The DE1 espresso machine uses two vibe pumps, one for overheated hot water (~99ºC), one for cool water (50ºC), and we then use a mixing chamber right behind the group head to achieve the desired temperature. Our water tank has a 2 Liter capacity, and is heated to 50ºC at the start, and then up to 70ºC over time (to sterilize it).

Our approach to heating water is, I believe, a new invention.

Some benefits of this water heating approach:

- fast startup time (4 minutes)
- calcium deposits in the ceramic water tank, which can then be cleaned (and does not build up, like it does in a traditional boiler).
- very precise temperature (within 1ºC)
- ability to change water temperature quickly
- we automatically adjust the water temperature to adjust for the cooling effect of the coffee grounds, portafilter and basket. You set the "brew temperature" on the DE1+, which I believe is a new concept to espresso.
- our brew water has a higher oxygen content than if it were heated in a boiler (because a boiler's water is stagnant). I can't say for certain if this is a major feature, but higher oxygen water tastes better (with cold water).
- espresso made with the DE1 has much more crema than with traditional boiler based espresso machines. We are not sure why. Our theory is that the higher dissolved oxygen content may be the cause.

The reason we use vibe pumps is because they are very fast to respond, and so we can do this water mixing approach. The vibe pumps also allow us to give you variable pressure control, also called pressure profiling, so that you can (for instance) emulate lever machines with the DE1.
-

STEAM

Our approach to steam was new, until the new professional espresso machine "Slayer Steam" came out. Our approach is almost identical: http://slayerespresso.com/machines/steam/ - we are HUGE fans of Slayer Espresso machines, for many reasons, so this is reassuring to us, especially because it appears that Slayer has put a lot of work into understanding the effects of this new approach to steaming milk.

We super-heat steam on demand to 170ºC, at pressures up to 3 bar. Our water flow rate is about 40% lower than a traditional machine, because our steam is more energetic. This means less dilution of your milk in order to attain the same milk temperature, which should also mean "creamier" tasting hot milk.

When you steam milk with the DE1+, we display:
- the current steam temperature
- the current water flow rate coming through the steam wand
- the total amount of water we have added to your milk so far.

A boiler-based espresso machine will typically steam at 1 bar, at 128ºC. Boilers cannot go to higher temperatures, because the higher pressure that would create would burst the boiler. On-demand heating of steam allows higher temperatures and pressures.

My experience with our steam is that microfoam is very easily produced, and is very stable.

We don't currently understand the chemistry behind why our foam is so stable.

Several minutes after making a latte with the DE1, the foam is still there, and still with very small bubbles. We have a theory that the milk proteins are more "unwound" by the more powerful steam, and thus more stable, but honestly, we really don't know.

The flavor profile of milk steamed this way tends to be more raw tasting, less cooked. If you know the flavor of "dulce de leche" you will know that high powered traditional boiler machines will create milk that tastes like that. Milk heated with our steam does not taste like that at all, it tends to taste uncooked, "raw".

I will not say that our steamed milk flavor is better, only that it is different.

---

Please feel free to ask anything you like. I have written a lot of very technical information above, and I'm sure some of it is unclear.

One thing I realized after writing this is that I sometimes write "DE1" and sometimes "DE1+". This is because the DE1+ is the more expensive model, that adds some capabilities, so I have tried to be precise above to be clear which model has what ability.

 

I would appreciate if you could highlight the flow profiling capabilities of the DE1+ (in contrast to pressure profiling).
How is it achieved and what can be controlled. What modes/settings are possible?

Thanks in advance,
Andreas

 

@decent_espresso: Thanks so much for taking the time to respond and for your explanations! Of course, this produces more questions

1. So you're saying the machine pre-heats the water to 50 and then 70°C already in the tank?

2. How does the heating of the brew water to 99°C take place, are you using a thermoblock?

3. Same for the steam: Thermoblock?

4. How is the pressure of the two vibra pumps (which produce fixed pressure to my understanding) manipulated during the shot to create pressure profiling?

Again, thanks very much and best regards!

 

Ich finde das Projekt auch sehr spannend und muss sagen, dass ich manchmal eher abgeneigt bin von der DE1 und mir dann wieder gut vorstellen kann sie mir zu kaufen. Optisch finde ich sie nicht sehr ansprechend. Technisch ist sie natürlich (wenn sie hält was sie verspricht) top, vor allem zu dem Preis. Daher bin ich auch immernoch am überlegen, ob ich ein Upgrade zur GS3 MP oder zur DE1+ machen werde. Da das aber sowieso noch Zukunftsmusik ist, werde ich erstmal die ersten Erfahrungsberichte abwarten. Was mich am meisten abschreckt ist halt der fehlende Service vor Ort. Eine LM, Bezzera etc. kennt halt so gut wie jeder Techniker und man kann sie bei Problemen abgeben und es wird so gut wie jeder Fehler schnell repariert werden können. Das sehe ich bei der DE1 nicht gegeben, die erste Frage wird ja immer sein: gebe ich das Teil jetzt zum Techniker für Siebträger oder zum Computertechniker

@decent_espresso What about bachflushing with the DE1 and how does it lose the pressure after a shot?