Timemore Sculptor 078, mit variabler Drehzahl, für Filter

Vielen Dank @DenisSabou für den ausführlichen Bericht Du sprichst viele Punkte an, die für mich ausschlaggebend sind.

Ich habe jetzt auf Sigma UK die 078s vorbestellt. Kurz darauf ging auch deren EU Shop an den Start, wenn ich das richtig gesehen habe. Ist vielleicht was für die, die der Sache mit der Verzollung nicht über den Weg trauen.

Werde mir auf jeden Fall auch die Hybrid/Ghostburrs nachbestellen, wenn es die mal einzeln geben sollte. Filter müssen damit ja der Hammer sein. Hatte mit meiner Niche zuhause schon lange keinen richtig guten Filter mehr - nur im Büro mit der Handmühle.

Ich bin ganz froh, dass das Ding gerade jetzt in EU einschlägt, da ich mir sonst wohl die Lagom P64 näher angeschaut hätte..

 

Habs gerade mal im Eu Shop gecheckt. Endpreis mit Versand ist wohl 670€ und wird wohl mal 700€ sein. Echt nicht schlecht. Cool, dass du dir die 078s Variante holen wirst, zu der gibt es ja noch keine Reviews. Bin dann auf deine Erfahrungen gespannt.

 

Ja, ich versuche das einfach mal blind. Ansonsten verkaufe ich sie OVP direkt weiter vielleicht hat Lance Hedrick dann ja Interesse!

Die Sculptor ist für mich aktuell der letzte Strohhalm, den ich für unter 1500€ greifen kann, um die Niche zu ersetzen. Wenn alles passt, dann mache ich bei dem Tausch Niche gegen Sculptor auch nur wenig Verluste, da die Nachfrage für die erstgenannte Mühle ja nach wie vor groß ist.

EDIT um die Frage vorwegzunehmen: Ich hasse Mühlen mit Bellows, daher sind so Sachen in Richtung DF64 für mich raus zwei Freunde von mir haben die DF. Nachdem ich aber 3 Jahre den worklfow der Niche zu schätzen gelernt habe, sind die Dinger einfach raus für mich.

 

I like your way of describing taste experience. What SSP's exactly are you referring here? I have the 64 mm brew in my Ode. I like the silky texture, but the body is kind of hollow. It doesn't stay on the tongue. Somehow like cooking on a nonstick pan instead a cast iron one.
So having more body without losing clarity and acidity would be nice.
When I take a look at the burrs, there are so different. It seems SSP's are super sharp, so they cut the beans in a very clean way. Sculptor rather seems to crush them, maybe using the inherent cell structure as a sort of "predetermined breaking point". That would mean that the microstructure stays more intact. No idea if this is a thing or just some esoteric gobbledygook.

By the way, how come you have a Sculptor since November? Did you pay for it? I'm not saying you review is biased. But a little transparency can't hurt.

deepl Übersetzung etwas überarbeitet:
Mir gefällt, wie du das Geschmackserlebnis beschreibst. Welche SSP's meinst du hier genau? Ich habe die 64 mm Brew in meiner Ode. Ich mag die seidige Textur, aber der Körper ist irgendwie hohl. Er bleibt nicht auf der Zunge. So, als würde man in einer antihaftbeschichteten Pfanne statt in einer gusseisernen braten. Es wäre schön, mehr Körper zu haben, ohne an Klarheit und Säure zu verlieren. Wenn ich mir die Scheiben ansehe, die sind extrem unterschiedlich. Die von SSP scheinen superscharf zu sein, so dass sie die Bohnen sehr sauber schneiden. Die von Sculptor scheinen sie eher zu zerquetschen, vielleicht indem sie die Zellstruktur als eine Art "Sollbruchstelle" nutzen. Das würde bedeuten, dass die Mikrostruktur intakter bleibt. Keine Ahnung, ob das stimmt oder esoterisches Geschwurbel ist.
Übrigens, wie kommt es, dass du seit November eine Sculptor hast? Hast du dafür bezahlt? Ich will nicht sagen, dass dein Bericht voreingenommen ist. Aber ein bisschen Transparenz kann nicht schaden.

 

If you want more body/sweetness then maybe timemore sculptor hybrid burr or/and ssp 64mm brew/MP are not for you then. They do not excell in body or sweetness, yes for me that likes more acidic brews the body is enough (sculptor gives a tiny bit more body than ssp 64brew/mp or 98mm ssp) but if you compare it with ODE v1.1 burr or ditting burr then it's not close. Both Ode and ditting gives you way more sweetness and body but not sharp/crisp acidity.

Maybe a solution would be the 078S with the traditional burrs similar to Eg1 core burrs, those will give you more sweetness and body, and with proper ratio/tds and water composition acidity and clarity too (a better balance). I use really soft water, my tap water is 51ppm total (41 alkalinity)- 2.7 dH, my brews are like I said on the acidic bright side, some people might find them too acidic. Acidity also increases with TDS, Timemore brews easily 22-26% ey with 1.6+ tds on any brewer (v60-april-timemore b75).

I pay for all my products, never got anything free:

 

Lucky you, having such soft water. Adding minerals is much easier than removing them... Where are you based?
Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy with the SSP Brew burrs so far. Round and soft, lots of clarity. Silky texture is nice. I guess I just have to adjust my brewing technique. I'm still getting used to them.

So, If you would have to chose 1 or 2 grinders (one burr set each), which ones would you keep? Did you try 98 mm pre 2015 EK burrs?

 

Hey Dennis, i can find the Zero Sq Cafe store neither on AliExpress nor on Alibaba? Any insights?

 

Maybe it's your ip, or they dont want to send to Germany. Lance ordered via vpn with a different ip than portugal. But I hope you are not chasing the price I payed for it because that was near black friday and I had a discount coupon from my previous purchases on aliexpress. the price of the grinder now is ±700e.

As for choosing something, I choose as I said Timemore Sculptor for brewing, very happy with the result.

I am in Bergen Norway.

 

@DenisSabou, do you have any sources or your own data regarding the stepped adjustment of the Sculptor? How many microns per vertical step etc? I couldn't find anything on that subject.. And I know it's not necessary for filter, but have you tried to remove the stepping mechanism or can you tell whether it's difficult or not?

Übersetzung:

Haben Sie irgendwelche Quellen oder Ihre eigenen Daten bezüglich der stufenweisen Einstellung des Sculptor? Wie viele Mikrometer pro vertikaler Stufe usw.? Ich konnte nichts zu diesem Thema finden. Und ich weiß, dass es für den Filter nicht notwendig ist, aber haben Sie versucht, den Stufenmechanismus zu entfernen oder können Sie sagen, ob das schwierig ist oder nicht?

 

I dont know of such steps, you can just put the dial anywhere on the dial, if I want 5.1 or 5.3 or 5.7

As for distance between burrs and that type of stuff, these is no such thing on ghost burr grinders because the burrs inter-twind eachother, this means one burr goes into the other so you can't calculate burr distance, the burr distance in theory is negative.

I said it 1 milion times already, I would not even consider this grinder for espresso. It's lacking too many features to be able to be a easy to use grinder for espresso. There is no portafilter holder, the catch cup is too narrow to transfer into a portafilter, it will create a lot of clumps from the cup being so narrow, then you have to do 10 minutes of WDT, and in my opinion the static will be too much, yes the chute takes the static but in espresso when you are going to knock the chute a big pile of clumps will fall out, what you gonna do with that? it's a pile of fines that will make the water flow different in your puck. So out of the question that this can be good for espresso.

This is on 078. for brew with hybrid ghost burrs. I dont know if the espresso grinders will be different or not, different chute inside, a flapper, different thread of dial in.

Timemore also announced that they will not support any burr change by customers and if you change your burrs you loose the warranty. They also stated that you can't change from brew burrs to espresso burrs because the thickness of the burrs is totally different. To put it simple they do not agree or support for you to open and change the burrs by any means. This was posted on their facebook when a customer asked if 64mm ssp burrs will fit the 64mm model.

 

Okay. I know how ghost burrs work. I was asking for vertical movement and not burr gap - but it's okay if you don't have any more details about it.

Besides the narrow cup (easy fix btw), everything you are describing is also a "problem" for most "cheap" single dosing grinders. I don't see an issue with no portfilter holder. I wouldn't even use one if I had one on my grinder.

Also why would the static be a bigger problem here than in any other grinder? Either you push/knock them out or you don't. If you want to lessen static, you can use RDT.. Etc..

But overall you may be right! And maybe it's too early to discuss this matter.

Thank you very much for all your efforts on this subject

EDIT: I am referring to the 078s version, if that was unclear, sorry! I putting my hope into Timemore that they will tweak some details (eg. a 58mm cup) so this may work for espresso out of the box. Otherwise I have to tweak myself or resell it.

 

If the chute attracts fines and static, then it means it's doing a separation of particles, after you finish grinding you knock that to clean out the chute and have as little retention as possible.

This means a big pile of fines (I get 0.5-0.7g of chaff and fines by grinding at filter range)I think you are going to have 1g in the chute at espresso grind, will fall on top of your coffee, then you have to mix and integrate this fines into the puck, how are you going to do this consistent each shot? by WDT? or you hope that you use RDT and then there wont be any static and fines separation?

I see this to be a problem.

 

I use a shaker/tumbler! And I don't see a big problem here, since this also happens eg. with the DF64 and even the Niche when you don't RDT or smack the grinder very hard fines always come out last..

 

Denis, would you keep the ODE2 or sculptor when it comes to casual home use with solid specialty coffee beans? Im debating canceling my preorder for the sculptor, as I got the ode2 for 385€ right now. A well balanced grinder profile is quite essential for me, as I got casual guests quite often. Most important: clarity (bringing out individual taste profile of the bean), sweetness, body. If the sculptor excels lets say, like 10% better cup quality all in all, I might consider keeping the preorder and just testing out myself. Cheers for all your effort.

 

I find it funny how you put the problem.

Ode v2 is not clean at all, it's muddy and high body/sweet like a conical. Ode v1 is much cleaner than V2.
And comparing directly the sculptor to Ode v1, the sculptor is light years in terms of clean/clarity to ode v1.

Ode v1 gets biterish at 22-23% ey, sculptor had no bitter on 26% on the same coffee one of the norwegian brewers cup competitor prepared for me side by side on both grinders. We measured the extraction with difluid r2 and vst refractometer. We both like cleaner and more acidic coffees, ode v1 was sweeter and less acidic (it had no citric acidity but the sculptor had it). Ode v2 will be sweeter and heavier with more body than Ode v1. I dont understand why people buy ode v2, it's not an upgrade but a downgrade to V1 (if you separate chaff and taste it with hot water it taste bad) so the ode v2 brings all the chaff in the cup.

For me the most important aspect on a grinder is taste, the rest are not so important (i dont care how fast or slow it grinds, how big the grinder is, how loud or silent it is.

For me on a tight budget there is 1z presso q2 for less than 100 euro. Then you have ode v1 on sale for ±220euro (a really good grinder, but you must adjust the water/recipe for it) I had coffee made by April in Italy on Ode two of their expensive beans made by them (they were invited to prepare coffee one day at a local shop) and in my opinion the coffee tasted really good with their recipe water beans on the Ode v1 stock, no need of SSP.

Then at 600euro you have Sculptor but the big one, the big one has the good burrs, the 64mm brew burrs dont have that much cutting surface.

 

Thanks good sir. The grind distribution charts, wich are around, make it seem like Ode2 is quite similar to Ssp burrs.
I don't know what to think, so clearly an in-house test is in order. I am keeping the pre-order for sculptor and gonna sell the Ode2 when there's a large difference. The chaff argument is strong, can't argue with that.

Big Burr is good burr. I like it.

 

You dont taste grinders by how the distribution looks like. distribution PSD of particles are not relevant simply because if you used different beans (different roast levels or bean hardness) then the whole result changes. And even so the laser can scan only wha he sees on 2 dimensions, so it's again just a part of the truth.

I was chasing grinder's psd, 2 years ago, but not now. I taste a grinder and go from there. Also this chase for the most uniform grinder is non-sense. Both ditting sweet lab and comandante has really uneven grind compared to something like SSP, but they can make delicious brews. So? does the better looking more uniform grind taste better? no.

And taste is subjective, you can give the same cup of coffee to 10 people, 7 will like A the other 3 will like B, this doesnt mean A is better than B.

 

Gibt es eigentlich schon Informationen wann ca. die S-versionen für Espresso rauskommen sollen?

 

Als ich meine Vorbestellung bei Sigma für die 078s getätigt habe, stand da das gleiche wie bei der "normalen". Also nach Zertifizierung Ende März. Allerdings scheint die S-Variante aktuell schon nicht mehr vorbestellbar zu sein. Ich kann morgen mal nachfragen wann die bei Sigma damit rechnen und ob das deckungsgleich mit der 078 ist.